Horizon deliberately set out to deceive

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Re: Horizon deliberately set out to deceive

Postby RCModelReviews » Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:33 am

No, they've made no attempt to contact me or to defend their actions with this video.

I guess they didn't want the evidence to be left online for all to see though. Sunlight is a great disinfectant when it comes to removing the stench of deception.

I did download a copy of this video and had planned to re-upload the part of concern to the RCModelReviews YouTube channel so I could still reference it from that article -- but I think Horizon's actions in pulling the video say it all.
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has Horizon deliberately set out to deceive?

Postby ergocentric » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:43 pm

The sad state of affairs is (in my opinion) that without giant companies driving the hobby market with advertising we wouldn't have the toys we have today.
Now freedom of information and disinformation through the internet is cutting in to their advertising revenue.

It may have been deceptive, it may have been marketing running a defining a scientific test, it may have been ignorance; their best bet is to say nothing and hope it goes away.
unconcerned but not indifferent - MAN RAY
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Re: Horizon deliberately set out to deceive

Postby cmulder » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:49 pm

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Re: Horizon deliberately set out to deceive

Postby RCModelReviews » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:25 am

I've noticed a number of folks trying to claim that my article was wrong and that the Futaba was no better than the Spektrum. I guess that's called "blind brand loyalty"

I've done some more tests and analog servos often work right down to about 2.2V. From about 3V and below they don't deliver a *lot* of torque but still enough to give you *some* control -- and analog servos have zero reboot time.

So if you're using your FAAST (or other low-brownout voltage) receiver with analog servos then you *will* retain control in those brownout situations that leave the Spektrum totally dead.

How can this mean that Spektrum is no worse than the rest?

And, since there is still a finite reboot time associated with losing the link and re-establishing it, a receiver that *doesn't* reset will always start working before one that does when the voltage drops.

This is another "the sky isn't falling" situation. Use enough battery and good quality leads/switches and neither receiver will ever brown-out or reset, it's as simple as that.

However, to try and mislead people into thinking your product is as good or better than a competitors when that clearly isn't true is deceptive and unethical. When a company stoops to this kind of behavior, it makes it harder to give credibility to other claims it may make.

Good on Horizon for pulling the video -- but I suspect it was only because it now constituted evidence of their willingness to deceive the market.

They didn't even bother offering an explanation or justification, as you would expect if they really believed what they'd stated.
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Re: Horizon deliberately set out to deceive

Postby siang » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:27 am

Read thru all and I find it very interesting, cmulder :). Good on ya, mate. I'm not sure about the voltage of my reciever batts but if they fall more than 2 led light of my align 2in1, I'll strap a new batts on. It'd be silly to try to fly it, esp if It's a heli. The only thing that I don't like is their programe ability, sort of limited, fine for heli but slightly complicated for plane.
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Re: Horizon deliberately set out to deceive

Postby Captain351 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:48 pm

After listening to Horizons pod cast my conclusion is that they are definitely in cover your ass mode.

1. They did admit that the original video was misleading.
2. They never did admit that the Futaba receiver never browned out. Isn't that a critical point you don't need a brownout detector if your product doesn't brown out.
3. They did admit that the servo's where what was browning out but then said that analog servo's quit at the same time as well. Wrong please show me a video of that so I can pick it to shreds!
4. They tried to say that the reason they don't get very technical with their videos is that they are trying not to confuse nontechnical types. Well lets examine that. These video's are placed on the internet where you have to have a computer with an internet connection and the know how to get to Horizons site and find the video in question. Sounds technical to me!
5. I really liked the comment about people who spend time on the forums don't fly much. They very much implied that we are armchair quarterbacks. (American Football reference) I don't appreciate that much I would love to be flying but have this little problem called WORK!
6. My favorite was when they compared this site to a tabloid. I bet Bruce wishes he had the cash flow a tabloid does. (Maybe someday).

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Re: Horizon deliberately set out to deceive

Postby Captain351 » Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:55 pm

We definitely know they are paying attention to this site. They quoted word for word Bruce's post just 4 up from this one.

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Re: Horizon deliberately set out to deceive

Postby Toumal » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:25 pm

Gotta love this...

FUD. From both the video-maker...and the reviewer. You know what the take-way is? That the receivers will work down to the level until the servos stop working. This is not a receiver problem, this is a BEC problem.


And yet another user who bonked reply before having even seen the video. The Spektrum RX goes out, the Futaba RX stays green. How can people even debate this? It's clearly visible in the video!

I heard people can heal themselves if only they convince themselves hard enough that they're gonna get better. If that's true, that guy sure must be healthy.

I really liked the comment about people who spend time on the forums don't fly much.


That's the easiest counterattack: Just question the other guy's competence or experience. Doesn't matter if the other dude has a degree in electronics or has built a cruise missile himself. Just fling the ol' "you dun know what'cher talking aboot" over and watch it soak in.

At least I know my brand loyalty for Futaba is not "blind". I know they're too pricey, and I stuck my own receivers into the oven and posted the vids to youtube to prove that there WAS a temperature problem. My only problem with the blind believers (see: XPS) is that at the end of the day, they're not just wrong, but they're endangering themselves and others. That's the real issue here, and I say the blame for accidents rests as much on the pilot who has a non-dotted futaba in a high-temperature environment just as the guy using a non-diversity antenna receiver in a big model just because the manufacturer claims that basic rules of RF and the math of dB calculations doesn't apply to them.
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Re: Horizon deliberately set out to deceive

Postby RCModelReviews » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:56 pm

I must admit to having a little chuckle when they implied that it's no good listening to the advice or experiences of those who populate the forums, because they don't fly much...

And then they went on to tell us how many people *rave* about Spektrum on Horizon's Facebook page -- as if somehow *these* people (who probably spend more time on Facebook than most forum users spend in forums) are completely different and know exactly what they're talking about.

I emailed Horizon and told them that I have no beef with their product and that I have no desire to knock it however, I don't like to see people being mislead (deliberately or otherwise) and I also asked them to comment on the issue where DSM2 sometimes starts up with both channels placed right beside each other, making it significantly more vulnerable to interference.

Will they answer?

I don't know.

The bottom line is that when *any* manufacturer or supplier starts talking BS or ships crappy product, I'll do my best to identify the situation and report it. My first allegiance is to the RC Modeling community, not those who make the products and/or buy swathes of advertising.
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Re: Horizon deliberately set out to deceive

Postby tommy » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:47 pm

The bottom line is even if the video wasn't deliberate, it is their responsibility to make sure what they advertise is correct. They are the experts supposedly.
So as far as I am concerned it's either deliberate or just negligent.
Take your pick. Either one is bad enough.
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