RCModelReviews and Spektrum/Horizon

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Re: RCModelReviews and Spektrum/Horizon

Postby johnkim100530 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:05 am

Captain351 wrote:I think the reason they aren't replying is that they can't do anything but make things worse. They either have to admit that their product has flaws or lie. I'm not sure which outcome would hurt them more. If they admit that DSM2 is flawed people who might not be inclined to listen to some bald guy from the other side of the world might start paying attention. If they lie many of us will be jumping down their throats about it and making as much noise as possible. They can't win so they are sticking their head in the sand and trying to ride their market share as far as possible. Unless they are supremely stupid there is a DSM3 system on the drawing board. They may reply after that comes out but only if they think Bruce can't find anything wrong with it.


It is no win situation. So, they stay mum.

If they develop a new design, it makes old version obsolete and people start dumping Spektrum.
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Re: RCModelReviews and Spektrum/Horizon

Postby RCModelReviews » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:19 am

When they do introduce a new system I would be very surprised if they didn't make it backwards compatible with DSM2.

Even DSMJ could have been made backwards compatible with DSM2 but I suspect that JR opted not to provide this in order to keep licensing fees payable to Spektrum to the bare minimum and because they likely also wanted to lock DSMJ users in to solely using JR receivers.
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Re: RCModelReviews and Spektrum/Horizon

Postby sturdybird46 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:58 am

I agree with Captain351. They kind of screwed themselves at this point. Truth is.......... lot's of people are listening to this "bald guy". I am glad that the rcmr exists and I appreciate Bruce's efforts to give an honest review of the products that are available. I still buy JR/Spektrum equipment. There are some features that I happen to like with their products. But I appreciate being aware of what exactly I am buying. I would feel much more comfortable owning Spektrum/JR products if they would be more honest about some of the design flaws.
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Re: RCModelReviews and Spektrum/Horizon

Postby Toumal » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:42 am

There are other options:

1) a new revision, call them "b" or whatever, with a new firmware that has improved channel selection. Like with the brownout issues. Of course people will ask what they should do with their existing receivers.

2) a silent firmware update. You know, like how futaba receivers suddenly had "rev b" on the pcb and took over 110 degrees celsius without troubles.

3) sue xjet and keep people from finding out. That has worked great for Barbara Streisand so I don't see how this could fail ;)
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Re: RCModelReviews and Spektrum/Horizon

Postby F111 John » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:17 pm

There's an old saying, Bruce, that you receive the most flak when you're over the target.

Spektrum will come out with a "DSM3" eventually that will be a true frequency hopping system. If they're smart they will design the transmitter to have a fallback DSM2 mode so as to not alienate their current customer base who wishes to upgrade the transmitter, but not obsolete their fleet of DSM2 equipped aircraft. Given their exclusive (patented?) "model match" technology that gives each model memory its own GUID, they could also easily store the transmit mode as part of the model information, thereby avoiding the "oops, I had my transmitter in the wrong mode" issue.

If they were really smart, they could also make new "DSM3" receivers that could revert to DSM2 mode, giving both a future upgrade path to existing DSM2 transmitter users who purchase new receivers, and give JR/Spektrum/Horizon a graceful way to phase out DSM2 receivers from retail sale.

Or they can continue to be the arrogant Horizon Hobbies we've all come to know and love...
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Re: RCModelReviews and Spektrum/Horizon

Postby mkaz » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:03 pm

Dear Bruce,
the reason I enjoy reading your reviews is that until now you have been honestly reporting facts and findings. Rcmodelreviews is, IMHO, currently the only source if you are looking for unbiased reviews, at least in English.
I believe this is the only way to go and in the long run, it will pay off. Keep away from the politics and keep on reporting the truth.
Until now non of your site members or readers seem to have experienced problems reaching you in open or closed dialog. I'm sure any vendor who wishes to contact rcmodelreviews will be able to do so.

Being approximately your age I am subscribing to RC model magazines for tens of years. Over this time I saw a decline in 'real' reporting. Most magazine so called reviews seem template like, offer almost no criticism and most summaries offer reprint-ready phrases, to be used by the manufacturer in reprints. Most of the time magazines refrain from doing comparisons, being afraid to offend potential advertisers.
All this at the expense of their paying readers.
I urge you to not go along this path. You have my full trust and I dare to say most of your members and readers, that reviews are truthful and unbiased.

In my humble opinion, the public letter and your offering of facts regarding a dialog with Spektrum/Horizon, were unnecessary.
Informing manufacturers publicly about upcoming reviews on your site, like the upcoming shootout or the DX8/Aurora9 comparison mentioned in your letter, is a great idea. It is public and transparent, gives manufacturers and distributors time to prepare and open an information channel with rcmodelreviews and is fair to all, giving everybody a chance to respond. In addition, it gives your readers something to wait for.

Keep up the good work and don't be discouraged by manufacturers who choose politics over improvement of their products.
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Re: RCModelReviews and Spektrum/Horizon

Postby RCModelReviews » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:34 pm

The purpose of revealing the dialog to date was to simply give readers the opportunity to see that I have been very pro-active in trying to achieve a dialog (and remain so). I've also had a growing number of readers inform me that Horizon prefer to attack the messenger (me) rather than address the message when it comes to reports of flaws in their system or the information they're presenting as fact so I felt it worthwhile revealing the content of what little exchange there has been to date so that the open and honest truth of the situation can be seen by all.

I had hoped to receive a response from Horizon by now and remain hopeful.
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Re: RCModelReviews and Spektrum/Horizon

Postby Roger » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:39 am

If I were a manufacturer, I would like to think that the products I sell all work well and have no faults. However nobody is perfect and it would concern me greatly if I discovered that there were some products that were performing less than perfectly and my attitude towards it would be to bring the products back in, inspect them, find the fault and there by continually improve my products to eventually make them the market leader. To ignore issues and bury my head in the sand, while it might make more money since I don't have to worry about warrantee issues - would be business suicide because I am refusing to admit that perhaps there might be a mistake...
Someone famous (I forget who) once said, "If you've never made a mistake, you've never made anything...!
I wish more companies took the attitude above, admitting that mistakes can be made and that products can always be improved, and that sometimes, someone else might actually know better than themselves.

I use the Corona system myself, it works brilliantly for me and I actually import the systems into the country (NZ). However I have had issues with some of the kits I've sold, I just recently had a completely dud DIY kit. Corona have been great, and all I have to do is send back the faulty units and they are replaced no questions asked. For people who buy through me, they don't have to worry about the warranty cost, because that is on me as the supplier - which is what happened in the case of the DIY kit. With most products, if they are cheap and they fail, they buyer either throws them away or just buys another one and the manufacturer is none the wiser that their product is actually failing in the real world - at least this way I can let Corona know, so that they can work on improving their products and manufacturing / QA processes, and they seem very receptive to that.

Note: Were the Spektrum system cheaper, I probably would have opted for that system in my transmitter in the first place, since the system is more widely used and there are many more receiver options available - and I stress cost is the main driving factor here.
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Re: RCModelReviews and Spektrum/Horizon

Postby baner » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:47 am

I also use the Corona module and receive in the UK and also import them I think that I have crashed more helicopters and planes myself than the system ever failing not once as it failed the 2.4 GHz dsss v2.And they informing that they are working on a two way COMBO (TX Module + Receiver) and hopefully will be backward compatible we will see. Keep up the good work Bruce they don't like it up them.
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Re: RCModelReviews and Spektrum/Horizon

Postby jeffie8696 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:34 pm

At the time I did my review of the Aviastar 46 Mike Hoffmeister of RC Sport Flyer did one of the same engine finding and reporting the same fault with the low speed metering of the carb.
He suggested a fix that is very effective and I thank him for it. So I would say the bias towards "perfection" reporting may be less an issue at least with his revues.
Of course this was from a very small engine manufacturer and not a huge company like Horizon.

People just love the phrase "you get what you pay for" and if they didnt get what they paid for they get really pissy and deny it.
Seems instead of researching a product and finding if it is good or not they just throw money at it and think since they spent a bunch of cash on it it must be perfect.
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