The Suspected Frsky GUID Issue

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Re: The Suspected Frsky GUID Issue

Postby funtana » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:03 pm

As a well established user of frsky (3 transmitters converted and twenty plus receivers) im'e watching this and any other forum thread very closely, this issue is the only thing bothering me and we still havn't got a 100 percent concrete answer from frsky in fact i don't think they have yet got there hands on the two offending units, hopefully when they have examined the offending units they will give us a concrete and truthfull answer,
just want to say this, i will no longer be reading that rcgroups thread on the subject it has collapsed into a slanging match with members accussing each other of being in the pay of frsky or some other camp, it's disgusting and im'e amazed that the moderaters havn't stopped it, they wouldn't get away with it on rcmf and if anything like that started here i would expect bruce to come down on it hard, nuff said.
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Re: The Suspected Frsky GUID Issue

Postby Fly2High » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:31 pm

Am I correct in saying that the Tx/ module contains a GUID and during the bind process the receiver records that GUId so that it will only operate with that one?

I would guess that the telemetry receivers still learns the Tx/module GUID and when it reports back to the Tx, it responds with the dame GUId so the Tx can recognize data from it.

does this sound reasonable?

I would suspect that if the Tx and Rx are designed for 24 bt GUIDS, a 16 bit GUID IS a 24 bit GUID except in some portion of the number there are a few more zeros. Zeros are still valid numbers. I would suspect that this is why the newer 24 bit GUID Rxs will work with the older module. for the same reasoning, I do not think that a 16 bit Rx will work with a 24 bit module since it may not be using the extra bits when defining the GUID. This could be what they are working on correcting. I do not know but it seems reasonable. It could be a firmware update to correct or it could be more than that. I do not know but I do feel confident that FrSky will come up with a solution and will report it when available. As for keeping us in the know, they have been very good to date, especially for such a small company. I suggest we give them the time to solve the problem and have a little faith. If you look at Futaba, ATX, Jr, etc. they all have had issues and have taken various lenghts of time to admit an issue and /or come up with a solution.

I just got for Christmas a V2 Telemetry module so I hope I am OK. Also, I think I am one of a few who use FrSky in all the diferent places I fly so hopefully the chance is rather remote.
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Re: The Suspected Frsky GUID Issue

Postby 7sp » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:32 pm

Fly2High wrote:Am I correct in saying that the Tx/ module contains a GUID and during the bind process the receiver records that GUId so that it will only operate with that one?

I would guess that the telemetry receivers still learns the Tx/module GUID and when it reports back to the Tx, it responds with the dame GUId so the Tx can recognize data from it.

does this sound reasonable?


This may be the way it works but I'm not sure. Originally I thought both the TX and the RX would have GUID's much like WIFI uses MAC addresses so that multiple users can talk to one SSID(access point) without conflict(except in our case only one user is allowed). After thinking about this it makes since that only the TX module has the GUID and the RX(non-telemetry) is simply latching on to the TX's GUID. Maybe someone that has actually watched/monitored the bind process can comment on the process used by FrSky?

Thanks 7SP
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Re: The Suspected Frsky GUID Issue

Postby A10FLYR » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:12 pm

That thread on RCGroups has gotten more friendly now. ;)
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Re: The Suspected Frsky GUID Issue

Postby 7sp » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:35 pm

I'm sure glad to hear that, After all...
We are all in this together and just like the great game of life... No one gets out of the game alive anyways.
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Re: The Suspected Frsky GUID Issue

Postby A10FLYR » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:11 am

Agreed Mate!
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Re: The Suspected Frsky GUID Issue

Postby kneedrag » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:45 am

I shall hopefully have some answers as to how the two units work shortly. I have been chatting to Eva for the last hour or so however we now need to get one of the technical guys to start giving some answers.

But in the mean time I can confirm the 2-ways are all unique GUID's and shall not conflict with the V8's or each other.

The V8's however work on two random systems one for GUID and one for the frequency hopping map, exact details of how it works I am in the process of getting.

As for the two suspect units I have the one here I am still awaiting for the other one to arrive so I can bundle them up and get them to FrSky for analysis.
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Re: The Suspected Frsky GUID Issue

Postby raptor22 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:24 am

How big a problem is this really? Does it warrant 9 pages of revolving discussion?

so the chance of a clash is 1 in 65500 and since thats already happened the chance of a recurrence is greater than that.

Just get out and fly and when the fix is available, its a available. The two affected parties have new radio's.

In the mean time, RC airfields have Frequency boards, simply place your tag on the frequency with a FrSKY flag on it and post a note next to board stating ha Frsky users to check for signal clash. If there's none then get on with flying. Nine pages on here isn't going to change the world. ;)
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Re: The Suspected Frsky GUID Issue

Postby 7sp » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:29 am

raptor22 wrote:How big a problem is this really? Does it warrant 9 pages of revolving discussion?

so the chance of a clash is 1 in 65500 and since thats already happened the chance of a recurrence is greater than that.

Just get out and fly and when the fix is available, its a available. The two affected parties have new radio's.

In the mean time, RC airfields have Frequency boards, simply place your tag on the frequency with a FrSKY flag on it and post a note next to board stating ha Frsky users to check for signal clash. If there's none then get on with flying. Nine pages on here isn't going to change the world. ;)


Please don't take any of this personally(not my intent), but that is exactly why all the discussion. The SIZE of the problem has not really been Identified!

And based on what I received back from FrSky they would like us all to bury our heads in the sand and pretend it never happened. They have confirmed the GUID's are randomly generated and get this.... The next version will allow the user to generate their own random GUID. If Ethernet had been designed with that big of a hole the INTERNET would have crumbled long ago (Network Design and Engineering is my profession).

I'm sorry but to me this sounds like the old "Dial-A-Crash" receivers of the past on 72Mhz. It sure sounds like Frsky's GUID(Globally Unique Identifier) is not really a GUID at all it's just a Sudo-Random number in a smaller then safe address space.

I stand by the statement... As long as more then one FrSky TX modual exists in the world with the same GUID then we are risking our planes every time we fly(Size of that risk is still speculation). This also makes the following statement by Frsky false "The ACCST 2.4GHz system shifts the frequency hundreds of times per second. It means there are no signal conflicts and interruptions". Clearly if even one Frsky TX with the same GUID exist (Or can exist) then they can not claim "No conflicts or interruptions". We purchased the product under assumption that the statement was true. Well at lease I did and I'm not willing to stick my head in the sand and pretend that it can, did and will never happen. My personal opinion is Frsky knows more then enough detail of the issue/problems and does not really even need to see the two suspect devices. Once they began talking of changes and new versions of product without even seeing the suspect devices it seems pretty obvious they had already identified potential problems.

BTW: We would stick to 72MhZ if wanted to deal with being hit randomly and the hassles of frequency boards. Not to mention 3IM and the pain of creating flight groups with no adjacent 3IM frequencies and not enough channels for larger events. Why do we need 2.4Ghz?. We need it because of all the things mentioned and more. But it's not too much to ask that if we are re-inventing the wheel at least it should be a better wheel then the one it replaced. Much of the problems with 72Mhz was caused by the lack of the GUID concept and human error. From what I have seen the majority of 2.4Ghz problems rest in the design and implementation of that one concept that has the potential to solve that most basic and common problem once and for all. As far as the human error on 2.4Ghz, I don't think we will ever eliminate that. :D

Kicking away the soap box, 7SP
Last edited by 7sp on Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Suspected Frsky GUID Issue

Postby funtana » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:11 pm

I agree with a lot of whats been said in the above post especially the bit about frsky not really needing the two affected units back to know whats going on, i had come to that conclusion some time ago, if that bit about allowing users to generate their own guids in the future is true i really don't like the sound of that.
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