Horizon relases DSMX -- it hops!

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Re: Horizon relases DSMX -- it hops!

Postby Toumal » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:03 pm

lightbulbjim wrote:
RCModelReviews wrote:I think EU regs allow for 100mW on systems that use more than a certain percentage of the band on a constantly hopping basis so you should end up with your power adjusted upwards.

Makes sense, assuming it's smart enough to lower the output when transmitting in DSM2 mode.


Fact 1: EN 300 328 mandates that you have to hop between a certain number of channels within a certain amount of time. Obviously that means the transmitter frequency

Fact 2: Horizon just ignored that and claims that "receiving" on other channels qualifies as hopping, even if your TX only transmits on two individual frequencies. They blast away at 100mW while transmitting on just two channels.

DX7 conformance report: http://shop.lindinger.at/pdf/74939.pdf (used to be on http://www.horizonhobby.de/m/i/n/Ho%200 ... 0v2.08.pdf but has been taken down by Horizon recently)

I spoke to Horizon engineers (as in, I met with them in person, not just via the internet) and asked them the hard questions. They told me that they do NOT send on those other frequencies in DSM2, but they "listen". When I asked about what they do with that information, the guy shrugged and said "nothing". This correlates with my own measurements which show two peaks at 100mW, which basically means that any DSM2 system is simply violating EN 300 328.

That conformance test above is obviously phony, look at chapter 8.4.3.4:
"Hopping" - "40 non-overlapping hopping channels measured"... "Further test results provided: No"

40 hopping channels measured, with a DSM2 system huh? I don't think so. Plain and simple, DSM2 is violating EN 300 328 and DSMX is their way of fixing this.

"The world's first wideband, frequency-agile 2.4GHz signal protocol"? Right. I just invented the world's first wheel (tm).
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Re: Horizon relases DSMX -- it hops!

Postby Maxthrottle » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:32 am

Disconcerting is that Spektrum and HH continues to promote DSM2 without publishing any precautions; no rewrite over voltage sensitivity and setup, no mention of DSM2 vulnerabilities. Kind of a continuation of their reply to RCMR; nothing.
Motive; to sell off more or old stock when they should be converting everyone sooner than later?????????? DSM2 will make a good BNF/RTF system.

I look forward to the A9 vs DX8 shoot out. Useful features points to an obvious winner. Latency is real but is compensated by the brain; like dancing to different beats.

But we will leave this to RCMRs formal review.
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Re: Horizon relases DSMX -- it hops!

Postby RCModelReviews » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:13 am

I'm still having trouble getting my hands on a DX8. We have one member in our club with a DX8 but he's not a regular flier and won't be updating to DSMX :-(

I guess if hundreds of folk emailed Horizon and told them to send one for review they might consider it -- but in the meantime I'll have to keep looking.
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Re: Horizon relases DSMX -- it hops!

Postby tele1974 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:49 am

Why are they not releasing a module based DSMX for our 9303's? I just watched the video they posted and the director said, "The architecture of the module system and how it interfaces with the radio, doesn't allow us to support DSMX in the module...you will still be able to run DSM2 mode...."
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Re: Horizon relases DSMX -- it hops!

Postby pushinoldrc » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:03 am

FrSky Mode in the module based systems will work just fine. The upgrade is a lot cheaper than the $75, and you don't have to wait on Horizon. The best benefit is the cost of the receivers.
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Re: Horizon relases DSMX -- it hops!

Postby 7sp » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:47 pm

IMHO I still find it funny how companies announce a new technology as conflict free and get the whole world moving that direction.

Then when they find they have fundamental flaws in the design they don't fix the original problem. They simply announce a new technology.

I compare this to buying Red paint, then you get home you open the can and find Green paint. When you try to get them to give you the Red paint that you purchased they tell you. Sorry we can't take it back because you opened the can, but we will sell you a can of our new improved Super-Red paint. :D

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Re: Horizon relases DSMX -- it hops!

Postby RCModelReviews » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:51 pm

The lack of a DSMX module is purely a marketing decision -- there is no technical reason why they can't deliver DSMX in module-form.

It must be remembered that Horizon is a MARKETING company and that the decisions they make are primarily driven by what's best for shareholders, not what's best for customers.

By not offering a module, they're effectively saying to those who are using DSM2 module-based systems that "you must buy a whole new radio if you want to fly safely in high-noise environments".

Of course it's the user's choice to upgrade -- but there is a degree of "is that a gun in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?" involved.

You can't blame Horizon for taking this approach -- as I said -- their obligation is to ensure that shareholders get the maximum return on their investment, NOT to ensure that customers have the maximum choice.
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Re: Horizon relases DSMX -- it hops!

Postby FrankS » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:59 pm

Does this make FrSky a marketing company when they say you must upgrade to the two way system to avoid any GUID issues.

While Horizon are the overall umbrella company, they do make some great products at reasonable prices for us modellers, the E Flite kits are exemplary and the small BnF stuff really good, as is the all in one micro Rx,servo unit. Maybe DSM2 hasn't turned out to be the most robust system in all environments (even though my Dx6i has perfromed fine, apart from a broken trim, for the last 30 months) but their customer service, at least here in the UK, is first class.

Are Horizon any worse that the other big brands?
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Re: Horizon relases DSMX -- it hops!

Postby RCModelReviews » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:30 pm

All RC manufacturers are of course marketers -- otherwise how would they sell their products.

The difference is that some prefer to build a strong brand and charge a "brand-premium" for the name, even when the product may have lesser performance (like DSM2) than other less expensive products.

Others prefer to sell their products with more reasonable margins.

When things need addressing (such as DSM2's inability to cope with hi-noise levels such as at large events) then the brand-name suppliers should be able to provide a free fix -- because there's plenty of margin to do so. Unfortunately, Horizon chose to charge $75 for their fix (DSMX).

In the case of FrSky, the fix is much cheaper (just the price of a 2-way module -- about $30).

It could be argued that the chances of being shot-down by noise when using DSM2 was very remote -- but then again, so are the chances of a GUID conflict with the FrSky.

The difference is -- "fixing" the DSM2 problem costs $75 plus the price of new DSMX receivers at a high price.

Fixing the FrSky costs $30 plus new receivers at half the price or less of the DSMX equivalent.

Can someone remind me again why Spektrum is such a good deal?

(yes, I'm being deliberately provocative but the point I make is sound).
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Re: Horizon relases DSMX -- it hops!

Postby Rob2160 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:31 pm

I bought a DX8 yesterday and flashed it to the 2.01 firmware which gives DSMX support at no additional cost..

Here is a vid how to upgrade it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdHLKqWkQm8

and here is a 2nd vid on how to bind in either DSMX or DSM2 mode...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3RjotmUPts
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